扒车喵(其实歼10B的超级机动不仅仅是矢量发动机的功劳,背后的飞控系统也极其重要。鸭翼、全动垂尾再加上矢推发动机,使得飞控软件算法更加复杂。目前全球解决这一技术难题的国家只有中国和俄罗斯两家。)
I’m not Chinese, but TBH, there’s a lot of trash thrown about by western and Indian “experts” and”journalists”with no background in engineering or technology Is Chinese Engine technology world-class Not yet. But it’s significantly better than any other Asian country, including highly industrialized ones like Japan, South Korea, whose Engines are far less ambitious.The WS-10 is already the most powerful engine of its class produced in Asia, it’sjust of a different scale to anything pduced by Japan, South Korea or India. It’s not really a 5th gen engine, but comparable to the GE F-110 turbofans used on a wide array of western aircraft. The WS-15, which is still under development is significantly more ambitious than any other country besides the USA and Russia.Chinafaces criticism for its indigenous engine development, while Japan, India, and South Korea, which are significantly behind in both engine/aerospace technology, are phrased for their drive towards indigenous production, despite only producing license-built engines at best. Take the TEJAS for example, it uses GE F404 engine, because its own Kaveri engine was a dismal failure. Their most am bitious project is producing something on the 11oKN class for their HAL AMCA project, none of which has materialized into anything physical yet. The WS-15 is in the 200Kn class, and it has been bench tested and flown (allegedly) multiple times already And they’re looking at 6th generation propulsion already.
话题:我不是中国人,但老实说,那些没有工程或技术背景的西方和印度的“专家”与“记者”们制造了太多的扯淡言论。中国的发动机技术是世界一流的吗?目前还不是。但中国在该领域的实力明显要强于其他亚洲国家,包括日本、韩国等高度工业化的国家,这些国家的发动机(型号与性能)远没有中国的那么雄心勃勃。WS-10已经是亚洲生产的同类发动机中最强大的了,它与日本、韩国或印度生产的发动机规模不同。它虽然不是真正的第五代发动机,但能与通用于F-110涡扇发动机相媲美。WS-15仍在开发中,它比除美国和俄罗斯之外的任何国家的发动机研发目标都要雄心勃勃得多。中国因为自主研发的发动机而遭到抨击(说性能怎么怎么),而在发动机航空航天技术领域明显落后的日本、印度和韩国却因为推动自主生产而受到称赞,尽管它们最多只是生产获得了许可证的发动机而已。以光辉战机为例,它使用了通用的F404发动机,因为它自己的Kaveri发动机是一个令人沮丧的失败。他们最雄心勃勃的项目是为他们的印度斯坦航空AMCA(先进中型战斗机)项目生产110KN级推力的玩意,但这些玩意都还没有变成实物。WS-15推力定位于200K级别,并且它已经被地面和飞行(据称)测试多次了。他们已经在研发第六代推进系统了。
*****国外网友评论翻译*****
[-]RhinoWithaGun 45
If the Racist Western Regimes are still around when China develops the world’s first Fusion Impulse Engines and FTL Warp Drive, they will still bash China and make BS unrealistic comparisons. India will probably continue to bash China too because that’s what India does. It’s inevitable and will happen regardless of what China does.
只要种族主义的西方政权还在,就算中国研发出了世界上第一个核聚变脉冲发动机和超光速曲速发动机,他们仍然会抨击中国,并进行不现实的比较然后喷粪。印度可能也会继续抨击中国,因为印度就是干这事的。这是不可避的,不管中国怎么做都将会发生。
[-]feibie 5
I think another way to look at this criticism is to use it to fuel a drive to contin uous self improvement as in the Chinese engineering space, screw the critiques. Shine bright enough that what’s produced speaks for itself, as in outpace and outclass the onlookers
我认为看待这种抨击的另一种方式,是用它来推动持续的自我改进,就像在中国的工程领域发生的那样,去***的的抨击吧。足够耀眼到生产出的东西能不言自明,以超过和超越那些围观者就好
[-]Chinese poster 10 5
Who cares. People dissing our engines isn’t gonna make it worse, and if it isn’t, they are just deluding themselves.
谁在乎。人们嘲笑我们的发动机不会让它变得更糟,并且如果不能的话,他们只是在自欺欺人。
[-]xingfenzhen 1 4
Regardless, if China wants to compete in aviation, it is bridge they must cross. In this market, you need to have performance, efficiency and MTTF of GE, RR and PW. If you are not competing at the highest level, you are not competing, it does not matter if many other countries can’t do it either. If one country can, them China must do it as well, the risk of embargo is too high.
不管怎么讲,如果中国想在航空领域竞争,这就是他们必须跨越的桥梁。在这个市场上,你需要达到通用、劳斯莱斯和普惠的性能、效率和平均无故障时间。如果你不去参加最高水平的竞争,那你就没有参加竞争,其他国家能不能自产航空发动机无关紧要。如果有一个国家能生产,那么中国就必须也能生产,因为禁运的风险实在太高了。
-]C45405
Chinais compared to perfection for better or worse. I don’t really know if that’s good or bad. Sometimes get the feeling acceptance of mediocrity becomes almost self-fulfilling. No one has expectations for your country so you have none yourself, but the amount of scrutiny that China faces is quite honestly absurd.
不管怎样,中国都被拿来和完美做比较。我真的不知道这是好是坏。有时我觉得接受平庸几乎成了一种自我实现。没有人对你的国家有期望,所以你自己也就没有,但是中国所面临的(对比)审视的严苛程度实在是相当荒谬。
[-]xingfenzhen 3 4
Need of of embargoes, China needs to and must be held at this standard. Other countries can just buy the best, but China can’t. It must be produced domestically, includes all subsystem and its required machine tools and raw materials.
这是被西方禁运的现实需要,中国需要也必须以这个标准来衡量自己。其他国家只要去买最好的就行了,但中国不能。它必须靠自己国产,包括所有的子系统及其所需的加工机床和原材料。
[-]jorvis nonof 21
I feel too many Chinese are OK with mediocrity in the soft power battle(media) and that worries meI keep hearing and reading soft power doesn’t matter”or”Western propaganda is too entrenched and there’s nothing we cado about it so that’s’ just self-fulfilling failure.Imagine if the same attitude had been taken to chips, jet engines, or even ballpoint pens. This attitude is ridiculous.China can’t simply continue to play a reactive, defensive role in the global battle for hearts and minds.
我觉得太多的中国人对国家在软实力(媒体)之战中的平庸表现觉得无所谓,这让我感到很担心。我经常听到或读到“软实力不重要”或“西方宣传太根深蒂固,我们对此无能为力的论调,所以这只是自我实现的失败。想象一下,如果同样的心态也被应用到了芯片、喷气发动机、甚至圆珠笔(芯)等领域会怎样。这种心态是荒谬的。中国不能简单地继续在争夺人心的全球(体)战争中只是扮演被动的、防御性的角色。
[-15tingerboast 75
China faces criticism for its indigenous engine development LMAO. 1.I cannot imagine which country is criticizing them.definitely not US nor Russia.LOL i guess many here know which country is that. the one that cant stop shopping for weapons because they can hardly makean Assault rifle themselves!its not because they are not capable, because they can make more money by shopping if you know what imean D
“中国因为自主研发的发动机而遭到抨击”呵呵。我无法想象是哪个国家在抨击他们。绝对不是美国或俄罗斯。哈哈,我猜这里的很多人都知道是哪个国家那个无法停止购买武器的国家,因为他们几乎连突击步枪都不能自己制造!不是因为他们没有能力,而是因为他们可以通过对外军购赚更多的钱,如果你理解我说的意思的话
[-ljorvis_nonof55
Their homegrown Arjun tanks were non-operational from013to2017 7 because they lacked sparesIndia picking an arms race with China is just about the stupidest thing they can do with their limited resources now.TheIndian people deserve better.
他们国产的阿琼坦克在2013年到2017年期间全都趴窝了,因为缺少备件…印度选择与中国进行军备竞赛,这是他们利用有限资源所能做的最愚蠢的事情。印度人民应该干些更靠谱的事。
[-15tingerboast75
well iguess we are familiar with their caste system where the army officers and those government officials are higher caste, while the grunts that are suffering, are from lower caste AKA cannon fodder, which is sad thing in modern day.
我想我们很熟悉他们的种姓制度,军官和政府官员都是高种姓,而受苦的士兵,来自低种姓,也就是炮灰,这放在现代是一件可悲的事。
[-]Kurt Tesch 2 5
The impression will change when China can compete with GE, P&W, and Rolls Royce. Buying or using Russian designs,or attempting to copy them, speaks eloquently as to the current state of develepment.
当中国能够与通用电气、普惠和劳斯莱斯竞争时这种印象就会改变。购买或使用俄罗斯设计或试图复制它们的做法,雄辩地说明了当前的发展状况。
[-]Palladium198764
Back in 2016, people were making fun of China for not being able to manufacture high quality tips of ballpoints, despitethe fact that most developed countries also did not have the capability (the situation has changed since early 2017, eversince TISCO cracked the technique, and now was capable of producing high-quality steel for high quality ballpoint tips).I have those China ballpoints: 10 pens for $o 70. Purposefully dropped one on the ground for 10 times to test durability,still writes perfect afterwards.The whole”China can’t make ballpoints” thing is funny in a sense that it was already far from a lucrative industry evenbefore China cracked it open, and now the Japanese pen industry are finding it much harder to make ends meet just becauseJapan aphiles had to stroke the flames of Chinese natianal pride.
“早在2016年,人们嘲笑中国无法生产高质量的圆珠笔尖,尽管大多数发达国家其实也没有这种能力(自2017年初以来,情况发生了变化,自从太钢集团攻克了这项技术,中国现在已经能够生产高质量圆珠笔尖端的高质量钢材了)我有那些中国产圆珠笔:花0.70美元买了10支故意把其中一支扔在地上10次,测试它的耐用性,然后却仍然写得很完美。整个“中国不能制造圆珠笔”的故事在某种意义上很搞笑,因为甚至在中国攻克进入这个行业之前,它就已经远远不是一个有利可图的行业了,而现在,日本的圆珠笔业发现要实现不亏本困难得多了,仅仅是因为当初媚日派公知们原本想拿“不能造笔尖打击中华民族自豪感的(结果变成预言帝了)。
9
[-]xingfenzhen 1 4
It’s about ball bearing from the beginning, even the TV documentary first complaint about this said so as well. Which iswhy the thrust of the project is not on pens, by on materials and machine tools.Ballpoint pen is just a example used two lay people have a easier timing understand. After all, most people don’t about ball bearinge, difference between then and how important those things are, most people on the other hand everyone have usedballpoint pens.
它从一开始就是关于滚珠轴承的,甚至电视纪录片第一次对这个话题抱怨时也这么说。这就是为什么这个项目的重点不在于圆珠笔,而在于材料和机床。圆珠笔只是一个例子,好让外行更容易理解这个问题。毕竟,大多数人都不关心滚珠轴承,不知道滚珠轴承的重要性,而另一方面,大多数人都用过圆珠笔。
[-]ZeEa5KPul17 5
Nothing India says should be taken seriously India is a nobody with delusions of grandeur and will remain such.
印度说的任何话都不应该被认真对待。印度是一个妄自尊大的小人物,并将一直都是。
[-Jazn_cyniq 27 5
To be fair, it’s a good thing that Chinese industries are held to the highest standard China should be flattered. The propaganda is simply a side effect of jealousy and irrational fear.In my opinion, the Chinese should be proud to have their industries compared to those of The United States, Europe, Japan, and Korea. In general, hose countres are more echnologically dvanced han China and he act that heir news mediaives Chinese technology airtime should be seen as an honor, even if the coverage is negative.On the other hand, the Indian news media criticizing Chinese technology is a bit pathetic and shouldn’t receive a second of anyone’s attention.
说句公道话,对中国工业的高标准要求是一件好事。中国应该感到荣幸。这种宣传只是一种嫉妒和非理性恐惧的副作用。在我看来,中国人应该为自己的工业能力与美国、欧洲、日本和韩国相比而感到自豪。总的来说,这些国家在技术上比中国更先进,它们的新闻媒体给予中国科技内容的播放时间应该被视为一种荣誉,即使报道是负面的。
[-]stingerboast 65
另一方面,印度新闻媒体批评中国科技水平有点可悲,并且不应该得到任何人的第二次关注。
imean, we could hardly hear about news from Laos or Timor right?
的确.我的意思是,我们几乎听不到关于老挝或东帝汶的新闻,对吗?
– -liorvisnonof3
There are many students from those countries going to China, where they will certainly contribute their talents, and eventually I think much of that will also flow back to their homelands and we will start hearing about them and their developments more often.
有很多来自这些国家的学生去了中国,他们肯定会在那里贡献自己的才华,我认为这些才华中的大部分最终也会回到他们的祖国,我们将开始更多地听到他们和他们国家的发展。
[-]Tiberium Deng3 5
China are building WS-10 engine for their own flanker series, WS-13 for mid-size fighter just like FC-1/FC-31, WS-18 forY-20 transport aircraft, developing WS-15 for J-20 5th gen fighter, WS-20 for Y-20, CJ-1000 for next-gen airliner.These engines are not top product. They have their own shortcome, for example their life length are shorter, thrust powerare lower, and oil efficiency are worse.But remember, they are compared with the best product which can only be made by very few countries and companies.Here are some FACTS:1, How many countries can producejet engines on their own?5. The permanent 5 members of UNSC, US, China, UK, Russia ancFrance.2, How many countries can produce airliner jet engines? 2. US and UK, 3 companies GE, RR and PW.3, How many countries are producing heavy fighter jet engines(which means have a thrust over 100kN)? 3. US, China and Russia. France and UK can’t produce heavy fighter jet engines.So China CAN build jet engines, although jet engines are probably the hardest product to make in modern industry, some people think jet engines can be madejust by any “modern industry country”, they are dead wrong. It is veryvery hard, soChina are catching up, and actually did a pretty good workThere is a analogy: it’s like when people see chinese won some 4th or 5th in Olympics swimming, and they ask: why chinese can’t swim? Well, 99% of people couldn’t make it to the final.
中国正在为他们自己的侧翼系列制造WS-10为像fC-1/C-31等中型战斗机制造WS-13为运-20运输机制造WS-18,为第五代战这些发动机不是顶级产品。它们也有自身的缺点,比如命短、推力低、油效差无斗机-20制造WS-15,为运-20运输机制造Ws-20,下为下一代客机制造C-1000但请记住,这是将它们与全球最好的产品相比的结果,而只有极少数国家和公司能制造这些东西。以下是一些事实:
1、有多少国家能自己生产喷气发动机?只有安理会五常:美国、中国、英国、俄罗斯和法国。
2有多少国家能生产客机用喷气发动机?只有2国:美国和英国,包括3家公司:通用,劳斯莱斯和普惠。
3、有多少国家在生产重型喷气式战斗机发动机(即推力超过100KN级别的)?只有3国:美国、中国和俄罗斯。法国和英国生产不了重型战斗机的发动机。
所以中国能制造喷气发动机,尽管喷气发动机可能是现代工业中最难制造的产品,有些人认为任何“现代工业国家都能制造喷气发动机,他们大错特错了。生产这个东西是非常非常困难的,所以中国正在迎头赶上,而且实际上做得很好。这有一个类比:就好比当人们看到中国人在奥运会游泳比赛中获得第四或第五名时,他们会问为什么中国人游泳不行?而实际上99%的人连决赛都进不了。
-]shadows88Chinese855
there are billion of them also, just like we can’t extrapolate a billion plus chinese. the best and brightest indiansgo to the US because India itself can’t provide enough good jobs for them. Alot of chinese did that too in the past but thetides have turn, the best and brightest chinese stay in China (because they know bamboo ceiling is real in the west)andthe ones who can’t make it to league go overseas because it’s easier.
中国人也有10多亿,就像我们无法推断10多亿中国人一样。最优秀、最聪明的印度人去了美国因为印度自己无法为他们提供足够好的工作。很多中国人过去也这样做过,但现在潮流变了,最优秀、最聪明的中国人留在了中国(因为他们知道西方的“竹子天花板”是真实存在的),而那些考不进“九校联盟”的人则去了海外,因为这样更容易。
[-Jazn_cyniq34
I totally agree. I’ll never judge an entire group of people based on a couple of bad apples. I’ll leave that job to racistbigots.On the topic of Chinese universities, do you know how many Chinese universities are world-class? Clearly, China needs morthan nine world-class universities to retain its brightest minds.
我完全赞同。我永远不会根据几个害群之马来评判一群人。我把这事留给种族偏见者去干。说到中国大学,你知道中国有多少大学是世界级的吗?显然,中国需要不止9所世界一流的大学来留住最聪明的人才。
[-]shadows888Chinese3 4
league isjust a grouping like ivy league in the US. it’s some of the top universities in China but aren’t all and some are better. kindalike in the US, Stanford UC berkeley isn’t in the ivy league but they certainly are in league with thlikes of MIT.China is building a set of world class universities. the ones in Class A will be the spearhead with Cg leading the pack.https://en. wikipedia. org/wiki/dou ble_first_cla_University_Plan
“九校联盟”就像美国的“常春藤联盟”一样。它是中国的一些顶尖大学,但不是全部,还有一些更好。有点像在美国,斯坦福大学,加州大学伯克利分校虽然不在“常春藤联盟”里,但它们肯定和麻省理工学院处于同一档次。中国正在建设一批世界一流的大学。A类的那些大学将会是先头部队,而“九校联盟”将是先锋 A ,””https wikipedia.arg/wik/DoubleFirstClassUniversityPlan(译注:“双一流”维基百科链接)
[-]Torontobblit 55
I shouldn’t have clicked and read the comments, but man the majority of the comments made me laugh so hard.didn’t really think of the Indian modern culture to be this corrosive and toxic in terms of their incessant obsession with anything CHINESE relatedTheir politicians that are supposed to be world class educated keeps failing them while propping up their delusions of grandeur about greater INDIA prosperity surpassing CHINA and even competing with the U.S. as Economic rivalImagine if the fist corona virus case was discovered in the slums of Mumbai, don’t know if the level of hatred, animosity against INDIA and INDIANS would have reached the same absurdity similar to what’s been said against CHINA, but it is n
t improbable that INDIA and it’s slums would not have been attacked by the usual suspects.
I don’t think in my assumption that CHINA would attack INDIA or would try to create any situation to further embarrass INDIA just so CHINA can one upit’s regional rival. I am more than confident to say that CHINA would have acted like a responsible adult and offer INDIA any help it could provide.
我不应该点击和阅读评论的,但是大部分的评论让我笑得很厉害。我真的没想到印度的现代文化会如此腐蚀和有毒—他们总是痴迷于(比较、贬低)与中国有关的任何东西。他们的政客应当是受过世界级教育的,却一直让他们失望,同时却又支持他们的自大幻想,认为印度的繁荣程度将超过中国,甚至成为与美国竞争的经济对手。想象一下如果新冠病毒病例是在孟买的贫民窟被发现的,我不知道对印度的仇恨和敌对程度会不会达到与针对中国的言论同样荒谬的地步,但是,印度和它的贫民窟不太可能不会受到那些老面孔的攻击。在我的设想中,我不认为中国会攻击印度,或者试图制造任何让印度更难堪的局面,只是为了打败它的地区对手。我非常自信地说,中国会像一个负责任的成年人那样,向印度提供它所能提供的任何帮助
[-]lurker4lyfe6969155
Indian experts are often than not trolls, that’s afact. They work in troll farms and paid rupees per post
印度专家通常都是水军,这是事实。他们在水军农场工作,每发一篇稿费50卢比
[-]Energiagi[S] 11 5
One of the many difference between India and China is thus:If a Chinese politician were to make such sky-high ambitious claims, and then failed at achieving them, they wouldn’t beallowed to pull off the same trick again.Whereas in India…
印度和中国之间的众多差异之一就是:如果一个中国政客做出了这种心比天高的雄心宣言,然后没能实现,那他们就不会被允许再做同样的事情。而在印度…
[-]GoGetParked 65
Guess 2030 was a step backwards for India.
我觉着印度2030年反而会倒退。
[-]Torontobblit 55
For a seemingly well educated person, how and where did he get to arrive at such ridiculous and lofty predictions? Am quite curious.
对于一个表面上受过良好教育的人,他是怎么以及从哪里得出如此荒谬而崇高的预言的呢?我很好奇。
[-]sckq 20 3
China is in a very difficult position, and everything is to compete with the best, even ballpen.Back in 2016, people were making fun of China for not being able to man ufacture high quality tips of ballpoints, despite the fact that most developed countries also did not have the capability(the situation has changed since early 2017, ever since TISCO cracked the technique, and now was capable of producing high-quality steel for high quality ballpoint tips).
中国太难了,啥都要和全球最好的比,甚至是圆珠笔。早在2016年,人们嘲笑中国无法生产高质量的圆珠笔尖,尽管大多数发达国家其实也没有这种能力(自2017年初以来,情况发生了变化,自从太钢集团攻克了这项技术,中国现在已经能够生产高质量圆珠笔尖端的高质量钢材了)
[-]Robert Wessel 5 6
Pretty much the entire inven tory of China’s fighters use indigenously produced engines. Some of those are license built copies(the J-7, the Chinese built version of the MiG-21, uses a locally built LM WP-13 which is mostly a copy of the Tumansky R-13 from the ’21), and others are local designs (although as with all such things, many can trace back their herit age to earlier designs, including imports-for example, some J-11s use the Shenyang WS-10, which is very much a locally designed engine, although it can trace its technologica heritage back to the CFM56 and Woshan WS-6).
几乎所有的中国战斗机都使用国产发动机。有一些是许可证生产的仿造版(-7,中国版米格1,使用国产的WP-13发动机,主要是米格21上图曼斯基R-13发动机的仿制版),其他的是自主设计的(尽管和所有这些东西一样,许多都可以追溯到它们早期的设计,包括进口的原版比如例如,一些-11使用沈飞的WS-10发动机,这是一款非常自主化设计的发动机,尽管它可以追溯到CFM56的技术遗产和WS-6)。
[-]5tingerboast 9 5
only 5 permanent US members has Jet Engines that can perform.
10South Korea-Nope. its KF-X engine is from GE.
2Japan-Nope( dream on, US systematically crippling Japan’s ability to create weapons)
3.India-shopping off the shelf.No doubt China is the late joiner in the 5 Perm club.remember this. 100 years ago, 8 nations were semi colonizing China, and China had no hope, the future is dim, Han was facing massacre and literally hopeless.100 years later, China is now world no.2 China is not perfect, no country is. But Im sure they have done a good job in keeping themselves alive, and making progress scientifically, and contributing to the progress of human race, while contin uously making products Redditors can affordso Redditors can surf Reddit, Fck China/CCP while typing on their Made in China gadget.
只有五常拥有能工作的喷气发动机(制造技术)。
1、韩国没有。它的KF-X发动机技术来自通用电气
2、日本一没有。(梦想中,因为美国系统地削弱了日本制造武器的能力)
3、印度买现成的。
毫无疑问,中国是“五常俱乐部”的后来者。要记住这一点。100年前,8个国家半殖民了中国,当时的中国没有希望,未来暗淡,汉族几乎没有希望。而100年后,中国今天已经成为了世界第二。中国不完美,没有哪个国家是完美的。但我敢肯定,他们在维持自身生存、科学进步为人类进步做出贡献方面做得很好,同时还在不断生产红迪网友们能买得起的产品,使红迪网友们能一边浏览红迪网、骂中国,边在他们手里的中国制造的小玩意上
[-]Specialcee 9 5
That video is hilarious! They have mostly white servants literally waiting on them on hand and feet.You can’t tell me they don’t have an inferiority complex masked as being superior to all other races. That’s how theywant to see themselves
那个展望视频太搞笑了!他们到处都服务员侍候他们,而且几乎都是白人服务员。你不能告诉我他们没有一种自卑感,以至于把他们自己伪装成比其他种族更优越。这就是他们想看到的自己的样子
[-]shadows888Chinese8 5
well, lets be a little bit more understanding. india have a billion plus people which means there’s a shit tons of peoplewho are easily consumed by conspiracy theories etc. like the US. The differenced is the nutjobs are moderated in China where in India they just let them run wild and completetly fucks their political system/short/long term planning ability.
好吧,让我们多理解一点。印度有10亿多人口,这意味着有一大堆人很容易被阴谋论等等吞噬就像美国的情况一样。但不同的是,神经病在中国是温和的,而在印度,他们让神经病疯狂失控,并且完全cao了他们的政治体系短期长期规划能力
[-Jazn_cyniq25
I agree. To be honest, I have a lot of respect for the Indian people. Indian-Americans are some of the smartest, friendliest people I have ever met in my life.The Indian news media and Hindu nationalists though…
我赞同。说实话,我非常尊重印度人民。印度裔美国人是我这辈子见过的最聪明、最友好的人。然而印度新闻媒体和印度教民族主义者就
[-]Jerry To 25
There is a trend for people to overestimate China’s ability to build rocket engines(for examplecz-5) and underestimate China’s ability to build jet engines. I think that is because historically China did develop its rocket engines quite abit earlier and more independently than its jet engines (due to national defense priorities), hence there could be a delayin knowledge refresh. China’s jet engine development only caught up with accelerated development in the recent decade ortwo. More importantly, the application of rocket engines in China were more high profile than the application of jet engines. Most have heard about the formidable Dong Feng series that maintains nuclear deterrence and the Long March series thatsent China’s first satellite and man into space. In contrast, the late development of jet engines has not yet given ita lot of high profile application. The most notable one is perhaps WS-10 series, and some people still don’t know it hasentered service for years. Many other Chinese built jet engines were ignored due to older non-original design or not knowing it exist (such as marine or industrial turbines, and in a broader sense turboprops and turboshafts). It will take somemore time for that impression to change among the general public.
现在有一种趋势:人们高估中国制造火箭发动机的能力(以长征5火箭为代表),而低估中国制造喷气发动机的能力。我认为这是因为中国在历史上确实比喷气发动机更早、更独立地发展出了自己的火箭发动机出于国防优先考虑),因此可能会延迟知识更新。中国的喷气发动机发展只是在最近一二十年才赶上加速发展的步伐。更重要的是火箭发动机在中国的应用比喷气发动机的应用更为高调。大多数人都听说过保持核威慑的强大的东风系列和将中国第一颗人造卫星和人送入太空的长征系列。而相比之下,喷气式发动机的后来发展还没有给它很多高调的应用。最值得注意的可能是WS10系列,但有些人仍然不知道它已经投入服役多年了。许多其他中国制造的喷气发动机被忽略了,因为旧的非原创设计或不知道它的存在(比如船用或工业涡轮,以及更广泛的意义上的涡轮螺旋桨和涡轴发动机)。要改变公众的这种印象还需要一些时间。
[-]Joel Berso 22
I agree Russian tech is pretty much on par with the west. Chinese not so much. The primary reason Russian high-tech manufacturing is not enough to sustain its R& is that the closed Russian market is not self sustaining as well as most Russian tech users want western stuff due to the bad reliability reputation of Russian tech, be it engines or avionics.The main reason the US uses Russian rocket engines was due to a self defeating cancellation of NASA engine development projects in favor of commercial “off the shelftechnology that did not yet exist as a replacement and an unrealistic expectation of R&D progress hamstrung by budget cuts. Bean-counters outnum ber engineers.
我同意说俄罗斯的科技水平与西方相当。但中国就不是这样了。俄罗斯高科技制造业不足以维持其研发的主要原因在于,封闭的俄罗斯市场无法自我维持,而且由于俄罗斯技术的可靠性声誉不好,大多数俄罗斯技术用户希望得到西方产品,无论是发动机还是航空电子设备。美国使用俄罗斯火箭发动机的主要原因是,美国宇航局取消了自己的发动机开发项目,转而采用尚未存在的商用“现成”技术作为替代,以及由于预算削减而对研发进展的不切实际的期望。小里小气的人数量超过了工程师。
–JJames Joseph24
The Russian market isnt’closed as you. Russia sells aircraft and engines to the entire world, except for the USA which may explain why most Americans are unaware of it. Mexico, for example, operates Sukhoiairliners, and Kamov helicopters are certified in Canada. Americans use RD-180 rocket engines in the Atlas missiles because Americans are unableto produce advanced engines. China is unable to build advanced jet engines for the same reason Americans are unable to build advanced rocket engines-they don’t have the advanced materials.
俄罗斯市场并不像你说的那样“封闭”。俄罗斯向全世界出售飞机和发动机,除了美国,这也许可以解释为什么大多数美国人不知道它。例如,墨西哥就运营着苏霍伊客机航线,卡莫夫直升机在加拿大获得了认证。美国人在阿特拉斯导弹中使用RD-180火箭发动机,因为美国人无法生产先进的发动机。中国无法制造先进的喷气发动机,就像美国无法制造先进的火箭发动机一样他们都缺乏先进的材料。
[-]stingerboast 65
India is trying so hard to get China’s attention.but the problem is, China only wants to compete with US.Like when No. 1 and No. 2 were arguing, No. 8 is trying to wave and say something, but nobody cares.
印度正在努力吸引中国的注意力。但问题是,中国只想和美国竞争。就像当老大和老二吵架时,老八在一旁使劲挥手说点什么,但却没人在乎他
[-]Palladium198724
They are the equivalent of your pathetic school bully who claims victimhood when he gets his nose bloodied by his”weakling”targets.
他们就像你可怜的学校恶霸,当他被“软弱”的目标打得鼻血直流时,就反过来声称自己是受害者。
[-]KderNacht64
Let it go. The dragon takes no notice of the bleating of sheep.
随它去吧。龙对羊的咩咩声毫不在意。
-]Belerdorhan85
Damn shame Russia and China don’t share more military technology.
真可耻,俄罗斯和中国没有分享更多的军事技术。
-]Energia91[S] 23 5
I’m of South-South Asian heritage, who has lived 22/30 years of my life in the UK When I worked in Singapore for a few months for an internship/scientific research visit, I figured out how wasted I’m in the west tbh. There’s no sense of ambition in the west, just toxic pessimism. So I’m moving to Singapore, feel I’m of better use on the continent to which I waborn. It’s an interesting time on their history they’re trying to rapidly industrialize, much like the rest of Asia. Where’as it’s kinda the opposite in the West, especially the UK.The west pretty much reached its civilizational peak. But I can’t wait to see what Asia can achieve when they reached theirs. China has bold ambitions, from social mobility to science/technology. It inspires millions of boys/girls to study hard, particularly in the field of maths/science whereas the same fields are underpaid and under-appreciated in the west from a cultural perspective.
我是一名30岁南亚裔,我在英国生活了22年。当我在新加坡做了几个月的实习/科研访问时,说实话,我发现我在西方国家是多么的浪费自己。西方没有抱负,只有有毒的悲观主义。所以我要搬到新加坡,我觉得我在我出生的南亚土地上会更能施展才华。这是他们历史上一个有趣的时期,他们试图快速工业化,就像亚洲其他国家一样。而在西方,尤其是英国,情况正好相反。西方几乎达到了自己的文明顶峰。但我迫不及待地想看到,当亚洲达到自己的顶峰时,他们能取得怎样的成就。从社会流动到科学/技术,中国有着大胆的抱负。它激励着数以百万计的男孩女孩努力学习,特别是在数学科学领域,而同样的领域在西方从文化的角度来看却是低工资的和不被重视的。
[-]Serinous125
That’s the power of propaganda. A significant amount of people in the west still thinks China as this backwards dirty country closely resembling North Korea. And that all China does is make cheap and easily commoditized goods.
这就是宣传的力量。很多西方人仍然认为中国是一个落后肮脏的国家,和朝鲜一样。并中国所做的一切就是制造廉价且容易商品化的商品。
[-JJoel Berso 2 3
The technology to develop a modern efficient jet engine require sophistication and hard experience in a number of fields,computer simulations of flow dynamice, metalurgy, fuels, combustion and more.For some time the only countries with enough advanced jet engine technology were the US, Britain and (to a limited extent)Russia. China (india and others) bought from Russia which held its tech secret, so they never were able to develop the tech needed to be independent.So, their engines were not”top of line “compared to those produced in the West.be as moeh aAs an example, the load on a single turbine blade that’s only inches long can be as much as 35 TONS due to the centrifgal force on a turbine spinning at 20,000 rpm at temperatures over 1, 100FOnly single crystal nickle-steel can sustain that kind of load for 2,000 hours without fail Not found in Russian or Chinese engines.
开发现代高效喷气发动机的技术需要在许多领域的复杂和艰苦的经验流体动力学的计算机模拟、金属、燃料、燃烧等等。有一段时间,只有美国、英国和(在一定程度上)俄罗斯拥有足够先进的喷气发动机技术。而中国(印度和其他国家)则从俄罗斯购买(技术机密保密),所以他们永远无法开发出独立所需的技术。因此,与西方生产的发动机相比,他们的发动机并不是“一流的”。举个例子,一个只有3英寸长的涡轮叶片上的负载能达到35吨,这是由于在温度超过1100华氏度的情况下以20000转/分旋转的涡轮上的离心力造成的。只有单晶镍钢才能承受2000小时这样的载荷而在俄罗斯或中国的发动机中没有这个玩意。
[-]James Joseph 1 2
“Not found in Russian or Chinese engines”? Actually, The Russians are pioneers in advanced metallurgy of this type, and until recently were making blades for Pratt Whitney, GE, amongst others. Russians still make rocket engines for western missile makers. Sanctions put the brakes on outsourcing by western engine makers and now they’re struggling to replace Russian tech in their engines. China is still trying to catch up to Russia, but Russian science is in Russian only, and translations are scarce.
“在俄罗斯或中国的发动机中没有这个玩意”?实际上,俄罗斯是这类先进冶金技术的先驱,直到最近还在为普惠、通用等公司制造涡轮叶片。俄罗斯人仍在为西方导弹制造商制造火箭发动机。对俄制裁阻止了西方发动机制造商的外包,现在他们正努力在发动机领域取代俄罗斯技术。中国仍在努力追赶俄罗斯,但俄罗斯的科学只有俄语资料,翻译很少。
