欢迎光临喵站
吃瓜,学习,涨姿势

巴基斯坦网友讨论:中国的歼轰七能否满足空军的纵深打击需求?

Despite its potent display of combat capability during the Balakot standoff, the PAF requires additional platforms to balance against a much larger Indian Air Force.

尽管巴空军在巴拉科特对峙中展示了强大的作战能力,但它需要更多的作战平台来对抗规模大得多的印度空军。

The Pakistan Air Force (PAF) has been following the Indian Air Force’s modernization program with keen interest, but budget constraints mean that Islamabad’s chances of acquiring a fighter jet of similar capability are slim. Instead, Pakistan seems to be focusing on the latest variant of its indigenous JF-17 Thunder multi-role fighter.

巴基斯坦空军一直密切关注印度空军的现代化计划,但预算限制意味着伊斯兰堡获得类似能力的战斗机的机会渺茫。相反,巴基斯坦似乎专注于国产JF-17雷电多用途战斗机的最新改型。

The Pakistan Air Force (PAF) has been following the Indian Air Force’s modernization program with keen interest, but budget constraints mean that Islamabad’s chances of acquiring a fighter jet of similar capability are slim. Instead, Pakistan seems to be focusing on the latest variant of its indigenous JF-17 Thunder multi-role fighter.

巴基斯坦空军一直密切关注印度空军的现代化计划,但预算限制意味着伊斯兰堡获得类似能力的战斗机的机会渺茫。相反,巴基斯坦似乎专注于国产JF-17雷电多用途战斗机的最新改型。

Furthermore, unlike the IAF’s emphasis on induction of new platforms, the Pakistan Air Force has in recent years focused more on weapon systems and sensor upgrades to their existing fleet. This strategy paid dividends during the aerial engagement between the two air forces’ on February 27, 2019, as the PAF successfully infiltrated Indian airspace in Kashmir and managed to shoot down an IAF MiG-21.

此外,与印度空军强调引进新作战平台的理念不同,巴基斯坦空军近年来更关注现有机队的武器系统和传感器升级。这一战略在2019年2月27日两国空军的空中交战中得到了回报,因为巴空军成功突入印控克什米尔空域,并击落了一架印度空军的米格-21。

In the event of an all-out conventional war, the PAF’s limited frontline air assets are at risk of getting overstretched. More worryingly for Islamabad, the Indian Navy operates a sizeable independent air arm, which can be utilized in a conflict scenario to target Pakistan’s coastal industrial hub of Karachi. The much smaller Pakistan Navy does not operate fighter jets, instead relying on the PAF for aerial maritime strike operations.

一旦爆发全面的常规战争,巴空军有限的前线空中力量将面临超负荷的危险。对伊斯兰堡来说,更令人担忧的是,印度海军拥有一支相当大的独立空军,可以在发生冲突的情况下用来打击位于卡拉奇的巴基斯坦沿海工业中心。而规模小得多的巴基斯坦海军并不使用战斗机,而是依赖巴基斯坦空军进行空中海上打击行动。

The JH-7, while utilizing an old air frx, is a highly effective aircraft for deep strike operations. The jet first flew in 1988 and small numbers were delivered to the Chinese People’s Liberation Army Air Force during the 1990s. An improved version of the JH-7 fighter-bomber, also known by the NATO designation Flounder, began to be inducted in large numbers after 2004, after the Chinese aviation industry was able to indigenously manufacture a derivative of the Rolls Royce Spey engine. The Spey engine was designed specifically by the British for development of a low flying naval strike aircraft to counter the Soviet Navy in the Cold War.

JH-7,虽然使用的是陈旧的机体,却是一种可以高度有效用于纵深打击行动的飞机。这种喷气式飞机在1988年首次飞行,并在90年代少量交付给中国人民解放军空军。JH-7战斗轰炸机的改进型(被北约命名为“比目鱼”),当中国航空工业能够自主生产罗罗公司的斯贝引擎的一个衍生版之后,2004年后开始大量服役。斯贝引擎是由英国专门设计的,用于开发一种低空飞行的海军攻击机,以对抗冷战时期的苏联海军。

One alternative to the JH-7 for Pakistan is its existing arsenal of cruise missiles, but this option has its own pitfalls. First, cruise missiles follow a predictable trajectory and are vulnerable to interception by India’s air defense network and fighter aircraft such as the Sukhoi 30 MKI. Second, the use of cruise missiles, even in an all-out conflict, presents a significant leap in terms of escalation. As such, a cruise missile attack by either New Delhi or Islamabad can lead to an eventual nuclear exchange.

对于巴基斯坦来说,JH-7的另一种选择是其现有库存的巡航导弹,但这种选择也有其缺陷。首先,巡航导弹的飞行轨迹可以预测,很容易被印度防空网络和苏-30mki等战斗机拦截。其次,巡航导弹的使用,即使是在全面冲突中,也是战争升级方面的一个重大飞跃。因此,新德里或伊斯兰堡的巡航导弹袭击可能导致最终的核战争。

Having extensive prior experience in operating and maintaining Chinese-built aircraft such as the H-5, J-6, and F-7, acquisition of the JH-7 by Pakistan and its effective combat use for the heavy strike role presents an ideal “stop-gap” solution for the PAF until sufficient numbers of the JF-17 Block 3 are inducted. The Chinese also appear eager to sell much of their JH-7 fleet, showcasing the fighter bomber for sale at air shows such as the China International Aviation and Aerospace Exhibition. As prospects of inducting foreign jets from Western countries appear bleak, the JH-7 appears to be the PAF’s only viable option to assert itself in a volatile region.

巴基斯坦空军对中国飞机(如H-5, J-6, 和F-7)有着丰富的操作和维护经验,在引入足够数量的JF-17 Block 3之前,获得JH-7并有效利用其重型打击作用,对巴基斯坦而言是一种理想的“权宜之计”的解决方案。中国似乎也急于出售大部分JH-7机队,在中国国际航空航天博览会等航空展上展示这种待售的战斗机轰炸机。由于引进西方国家飞机的前景黯淡,JH-7似乎是巴基斯坦空军在这个动荡地区巩固自身唯一可行的选择。

*****以下为网友评论翻译*****

SABRE

Which to chose between J-10&h7?

Or just take a leap on FC-31. The Chinese have picked up their pace with it. However, given the current economic and Covid-19 fallout situation I don”t expect new fighter aircraft deal for the next few years. We have to push the JF-17 programme.

J-10和JH7之间选什么?还不如直接跳到FC-31.中国已经加快了步伐。然而,考虑到目前的经济形势和201冠状病毒病的影响,我预计未来几年不会有新的战斗机交易。我们必须推进JF-17计划。

PurpleButcher

Maybe AZM will be just a Pakistani version of FC-31

也许AZM将会是巴基斯坦版的FC-31

SABRE

Its possible

有可能。

Foxtrot Delta

They meed to be atleast 400 km near karachi for blockage of the port and they would need 4x the navy size they have right now for the task.Even 400 km away they can be sunk now in 2020. Pakistan is not what they think. Their perception is of a weak Pakistan.They shall know on battlefield and in sea and air. It will be they who would have to be defensive

想要封锁卡拉奇港口,他们至少需要进入卡拉奇400km范围内,要想完成这个任,他们需要4倍于目前的海军规模。现在2020年,即使在400km外,他们也会被击沉。巴基斯坦超出了他们的想象。他们认为巴基斯坦是一个弱国。但他们将在战场上、海上和空中知道真相。不得不采取守势的一方将是他们。

zhxy

Pakistan can buy 200 SU-57 from Russia and pay in installments to receive TOT

巴基斯坦可以从俄罗斯采购200架苏-57,并分期付款买单。

Aasimkhan

Bhai read yourself. I quote, “Having extensive prior experience in operating and maintaining Chinese-built aircraft such as the H-5, J-6, and F-7, acquisition of the JH-7 by Pakistan and its effective combat use for the heavy strike role presents an ideal “stop-gap” solution for the PAF until sufficient numbers of the JF-17 Block 3 are inducted”.

自己看原文嘛。我给你圈出来:“巴基斯坦空军对中国飞机(如H-5,J-6,和F-7)有着丰富的操作和维护经验,在引入足够数量的JF-17 Block3之前,获得H-7并有效利用其重型打击作用,对巴基斯坦而言是一种理想的权宜之计的解决方案。

Al ternatiiv

Missed it. Then the au thor doesn”t make any sense since it takes time to assimilate a new jet and in duct it anyways.Also, I checked JH-7 specifications, and it says ithas combat range of 1000 km without a refuel (or external tanks). The JF-17has a greater combat range.Edit: As for marine targets, you don”t desperately need the block 3, and if they expect Idian Navy figh ter jets to deal with, then this is a bad choice, it would be at bad disadvan tage to Mig-29s.

看漏了。那作者就说不通了,因为引进消化一款新飞机需要时间。另外,我看了一下H-7的参数,如果不进行空中加油(或者外挂油箱),它的作战航程是1000km而f-17的作战航程更大权编辑:对于海军目标,我们对 block3的需求并不急切,而且如果期望用它们对付印度海军战机,那这是一种糟糕的选择。面对米格-29,它处于不利地位。

Foxtrot Alpha

exactly so are we looking to induct a new fighter for a long period of short period/ stop gap. This is what going to defineour future acquisitions.Author is confused himself, starts pitching with a Flanker with deep strike capability and then adds in a pinch of Light Combat Aircraft/Ligh tweight contender ….Bhai kehna ka chahta hai….How is a light combat aircraft suppose to hit enemy deep in their territory and then RTB safely

正是如此,我们正期待着引进一种新的战斗机,来填补这个间隙。这将定义我们未来的军机采购。作者自己都糊涂了种轻型战斗机怎么可能打击敌人的纵深领土,并且安全返回。

Beast

Besides the air inlet, I hard spot anything similar to Mig-23. This is fixed wing while Mig-23 is geometry swing wing with many different angle.JH-7 is considered heavy strike platform with very good combat radius, plenty of room for avionics upgrade. It may not asagile as Su-30MKK butits low main tenance makes it an asset. AVIC has stopped the production line of this plane. I am not sure is it avail able for export. All Chinese flanker series aircraft are not allowed to be exported Including J-16, J-11B, J-11BS and J-15 under the settlement of leg al right for Chinese to produce more domestic version Therefore, if PAF wants heavy weight long legged fighter bomber. JH-7A is the only op tion for export by China.

除了进气口,我找不到任何与米格23的相似之处。它是固定翼,而米格23是有着不同角度的几何摆动。JH-7被认为是一种具有良好战斗半径的重型打击平台,有足够的空间进行航空电子设备升级。它可能不像Su-30MKK那么敏捷,但其低维护需求是优势所在。中航工业已经停止了这架飞机的生产线。我不确定它是否可以出口。中国所有侧卫系列飞机,包括-16、j-11B、j-11B和J-15,在解决法律权利之前都不允许出口,除非中国人制造出更多的国产版本。所以,如果巴空军想要重型远程战斗轰炸机,J-7A是中国出口的唯一选择。

Aasimkhan

Especially when the author is himself saying that they are needed only till the time enough Jf17B3s become available. So hemeans these planes are needed only till Block 3s arrive Block 3s will be here much before we induct JH7s, if at all

特别是作者自己都说,这种飞机只在巴空军获得足够多的F-17 Block3之前才有需要。他的意思是,这些飞机在 Block3到位之前才需要?如果真是这样,没准我们引进H7之前, Block3就到位了。

Alternatiiv

The author didn”t say that. He seeks a solution for the Indian Navy. The JH-7 will be able to strike Indian Navy assets the Pakistan Navy can”t reach.

作者没有这么说。他向找到对付印度海军的方案。JH-7将能够打击巴基斯坦海军无法触及的印度海军资产。

PradoTLC

No.nothing less than 5 generation is adequate for deep strikes.

不行任何低于五代的战斗机都不足以执行纵深打击。

Aasimkhan

Isnt J16 more suitable? Isnt JH7 an out dated design? comments of experts please.

J16不是更适合吗?JH7的设计不是过时了吗?期待大佬解答。

Foxtrot Alpha

Any new platform that PAF acquires will require all lot of work separate productline or Project line. In tegration of Avionics, Datalixs, Software upgrades, In tegration of Weapon systems. It will divert focus resources from JFT program as well as Project Azm….depends what you looking for how deep your pocket is. PAF will use something to ease off pressure from existing fleet of Mir age but notlooking at something to keep for 30 yrs…atleast thats how i see it…

PAF采购任何新的作战平台,都需要大量的工作和独立的产品线或项目线。航电设备、数据链、软件升级、武器系统集成。它将从JFT项目和AZM项目转移走重心和资源这取决于我们想要什么,以及我们的钱袋有多鼓。巴空军将用一些装备来缓解现有幻影机队的压力,但不会指望某种装备包打30年至少我是这么看的

Zarvan

Answering your first part and yes it”‘s lot of work but eventually you have to do that work. You simply can”t keep delaying it.Eventually you have to replace older jets and get new ones.

回答你的第一部分,是的,确实需要投入大量工作,但这些我们最终都要做。不能总是拖延。我们终究必须更换旧的喷气式飞机,并得到新的。

kIternatiiv

JH-7 looks like a Mig-23, design might be outdated but if it”‘s in service with PLAAF then surely they have upgraded it well.Does Pakistan need it though? I am not sure, I don”‘t see a purpose since most of the focus for nuclear warhead delivery is ria missile launchers, and rocket launchers for cross border strikes. Where needed, cruise missiles and AGM”s can easily be deployed by the current fleet of PAF, so this plane doesn”t really serve a purpose for us.

JH-7看起来像米格-23,设计可能过时了但是如果它在中国空军服役,那么他们肯定已经对它进行了很好的升级但是巴基斯坦需要吗?我不确定,我看不出这样做的目的,因为大多数人都把运载核头的焦点放在导弹发射装置上,以及用于跨界打击的火箭发射装置上。在需要的地方,目前的PAF机队可以很容易的部署巡航导弹和空地导弹,所以这种飞机对我们来说并没有真正的用处。

araz

Bhai we have heard about JH7 from Mastan Khan and if I remember there have been multiple threads on it in the past as well. PAF has uated and rejected the JH7. Currently their supply and assembly line has been discontinued so it is a mutesubject. PLAAN has moved on from / 16 to JXX as they felt that in today”‘s environment even J16 does not cut it(otherreasons being financial and technological and they need a steal th plane. So to restart the supply and assembly line you willhave to pour in your money into the project. Can you honestly say that this is a wise thing to do as the JH7 remains a onetrick pony and there will be no space in modern day strategy for one trick ponies. Unlike the US encounters against Irag andVlet Nam, the Air forces are more or less evenly matched. You will not, therefore be able to use the JH7 till you havegained decisive air superiority and even then JH7 will need top cover to do the job you want it to do. The Indian missiledefence remains comprehensive and good so get ready to lose men and machines on a mad adventure like this which you can carry out with missiles as well and possibly more expediently and with more damaging effects( understand therepercussions of this as well so let us not go down that route). There is so much wrong with this strategy and it is so out ofwhack with what PAF wants why does this topic keep coming up??????????

Mastan Khan说过JH7,如果我没记错,过去也有好几个帖子讨论这个问题。巴基斯坦已经评估过JH7并且拒绝了。最近他们的生产组装线已经关停,所以这个话题没有意义。中国空军已经从J16迈向X,因为他们认为在目前的环境下,即使16也不够格(还有其他资金和技术方面的原因),他们需要一款隐形飞机。所以要想重启生产组装线,就必须向里面投钱。你真觉得这样做明智吗?因为JH7是种用途单一的装备,在当今时代的战略下没有它的空间。印巴不像美国对付伊拉克和越南印巴两国空军多少算是势均力敌所以在获得决定性空中优势之前,是不能使用H7的,即使那时候,也需要掩护才能让JH7完成你想让它完成的任务。印度的导弹防御依然很全面且优秀,所以如果你们想要疯狂冒险,就准备好损失人手和装备吧,你们也可以用导弹进行打击,那样做可能更方便,造成的破坏效果也更大(我也明白这样做的后果,所以希望我们不要走上这条路)。这个策略有很多错误,它与巴空军的目标相去甚远,但为什么这个话题会不停的出现呢?

jupiter2007

J-10C is better than JH-7 with better range. We should go for J-16 which would be better than JH-7.

J-10C优于JH-7,具有更好的射程我们应该用J-16,它比H-7要好

PurpleButcher

To those who say we should focus only on JF17 Blk 3 Azm Will you guys be comfortable with just F-16s JF-17s till mid 2030s (F-7 and Mirages need to be retired). Hopefully AZM will become a reality afterwards? If the answer is yes, you guys will be comfortable relying on just 2 aircrafts, then Good Luck:)but if you guys believe that we need another aircraft then the argument regarding hassles of creating infrastructure, training software upgrades is useless!Now if you believe that yes we indeed need an aircraft, other than JF17 BLK3&F-16s in the next 15 years before AZM, toreplace Mirages F7sThen what options we have

那些说我们只应该专注于F17Blk3和Am项目的人,如果只有F-165&jf-17s,你们可以一直安心到2030年代吗?(F-7和幻影战机需要退役)之后AZM项目能够真正落地吗?如果答案是肯定的,只依赖两种飞机都能让你们安心,那祝你们好运。但是如果你们认为我们需要另一种飞机,那么争论建造基础设施、培训和软件升级的麻烦是没有用的!现在如果你们认为我们在AZM项目落地之前,未来15年确实需要一种不用于F17BLk3和F-165的飞机,用于取代幻影和F7,那我们的

选择有:

Typhoon (Expensive, Prone to sanctions)

RafaelGood Luck:p)

Grippen(Could be but the debate comes down to what it offers more than JF Blk 3)

台风战机(昂贵,容易受到制裁)

阵风战机(祝好运)

鹰狮NG战机(有可能,但是会出现它比fk3有何种优势的争议)

ziaulislam

there isnt money..after JFT project azm.you dont have funds..you may squeeze some for used or new f16s but that”‘s it,mirages can still easy last till 2030..if they need to fly afterward i suspect PAF will instead look at trying to build frxs itself(parts of it)now if china offers super easy terms or if economy improves than its a possibility for reference, even India cant induct many fighters beyond LCA and home-built su30..they are 12X bigger booming economy

问题是没钱搞完JFT和AZM项目后,你们就没有资金了你们也许能挤出一些资金购买二手或全新的F16,但仅此而已幻影战机可以很容易用到2030年代果那时候还要飞它们,我怀疑巴空军会想力法自己打造飞机或者部分)现在如果中国提出超级宽松的条件,或者经济好转,那还是有可能的。对比之下,即使印度经济繁荣,其规模是巴基斯坦的12倍,他们除了LCA和国产SU-30,也没有能力引进更多飞机

Pakistani Fighter

Deep Strike in India”‘s Land? Dude Its India not Afghanistan

对印度领土发起纵深打击?哥们,那可是印度,不是阿富汗。

Foxtrot Delta

Something far better has been offered by china to pakistan for deep strike mission We await its maturity and availability offunds. Jh-7B is old now. Pakistan has its sights set on 2030 and beyond. It”‘s also inhouse assembly.

中国向巴基斯坦提供了更好的装备来执行深度打击任务。我们等待它的到期和资金的供应JH-7B现在很老了巴基斯坦着眼于2030年以后。它也在进行国内装配。

Enigma SIG

wW.Ita

Deep strike bombers are useless in a highly contested airspace with scores of AD platforms and air assets looking to huntyou down. PAF will have to assign a number of aircraft to protect these assets (SEAD,Escort).Also, India keeps promoting the Karachi blockade to the detriment of Pakistan. PNis then left to think defensively. Indianeeds to be sent a message that blockading Karachi would mean ballistic missiles heading to Mumbai; not diplomatically,but directly.

纵深打击?轰炸机在战况高度密集的空域是没用的,因为有大量防空平台和空中资产准备将其击落。巴基斯坦将不得不派出一定数量的飞机来保护这种资产(压制敌方防空火力、护航)。另外,印度一直在推动封锁卡拉奇,意在损害巴基斯坦的利益。然后巴基斯坦海就会为了考虑防守而离开。我们需要向印度发出信息,只要他们封锁卡拉奇,就意味着我们将用弹道导弹瞄准孟买,不要以外交的方式,要直接告诉他们。

赞(0)
版权声明:本文采用知识共享 署名4.0国际许可协议 [BY-NC-SA] 进行授权
文章名称:《巴基斯坦网友讨论:中国的歼轰七能否满足空军的纵深打击需求?》
文章链接:https://www.bachemiao.com/123039.html
本站资源仅供个人学习交流,请于下载后24小时内删除,不允许用于商业用途,否则法律问题自行承担。

业余吃瓜,理性学习,发现美的世界

小清新扒车教育

登录

找回密码

注册